The way that Palin has been portrayed in the past few days HAS bothered me. (I must admit up front that I’m guessing I’m the only conservative here. I’ve gotten to the point where I just presume I’m the only one and proceed to act accordingly).

You posted the US Weekly cover above. I saw that cover contrasted today with another US Weekly cover that featured Barack and Michelle Obama. That headline read “Why Barack Loves Her”. I just don’t see how that’s a fair fight when you compare that to “Babies, Lies & Scandal”.

Families have issues. Heaven knows my family had/has all sorts of issues and drama. Bristol Palin doesn’t deserve the media spotlight that she’s gotten. I’d really like to do a lexis nexis search and compare and contrast references to Al Gore’s (since he too was a VP) son being arrested in 2007 for speed in excess of 100mph and possession of prescription drugs that didn’t belong to him with the number of articles referencing Sarah Palin’s daughter. My guess is that Palin’s daughter has received more coverage. If we want to talk about former Vice Pres. candidates I think it’s interesting that John Edwards payoff/affair coverup hasn’t garnered as much media coverage. Arguably that’s worse. It looks even more poorly on John Edwards wife since she knew about the situation and let him run for the presidency anyways. I don’t know that that speaks to the media trending one way or the other but it feels a little that way to me.

I think there’s enough of a record to judge Palin by. Basing attacks on her because of choices she’s made in her personal life seems, for the most part, wrong. I think there are times where choices in a personal life can reveal deep character flaws that are apropo but deciding to choose life for your child instead of getting rid of it seems to be something that shouldn’t be the litmust test that qualifies or disqualifies you. I read an interesting stat the other day from someone discussing Palin’s choice to have the Downs Syndrome baby that 90%(one study I found in researching that stat said that it could actually be 91-93%) of all babies with Downs Syndrome are aborted now. The person went on to say that because 90% of the people decide to not carry to term their down syndrome baby that Palin was unfit for office because she had chosen to ‘burden’ the system.

Here’s what the New York Times said on July 3, 1984 about Geraldine Ferraro’s candidacy…

“Where is it written that only senators are qualified to become President?… Or where is it written that mere representatives aren’t qualified, like Geraldine Ferraro of Queens?… Where is it written that governors and mayors, like Dianne Feinstein of San Francisco, are too local, too provincial?… Presidential candidates have always chosen their running mates for reasons of practical demography, not idealized democracy…. What a splendid system, we say to ourselves, that takes little-known men, tests them in high office and permits them to grow into statesmen…. Why shouldn’t a little-known woman have the same opportunity to grow?… [T]he indispensable credential for a Woman Who [sic] is the same as for a Man Who [sic] – one who helps the ticket.”

Yes Wisala is a small town, but it’s a town that has a mayor-centric power setup that had her doing most of the management. Now, she manages a 12 billion dollar budget and nearly 25,000 employees. How much bigger of a job does she need for her to be qualified and with an organization that large, shouldn’t there be facts and figures that we can judge her on?

I guess I’m just perplexed by the mudslinging and I don’t understand why there can’t be a certain minimum level of discourse. I’m a male and I really don’t want to step out of bounds, but it seems like there’s a reverse sexism that says that because she’s not prochoice or doesn’t vote the right way on a certain number of other issues that she shouldn’t even be considered to be a real woman candidate. Treating it as an ideological issue we could maybe telegraph that with the way Condoleeza Rice and Clarence Thomas have been treated as “enemies of their people” because they have views that are different from some of the politicians at the head of those demographics.

Sorry, this is a mess of an argument. I hope it’s not too inflammatory, I really don’t like being a bomb thrower and I’m always nervous to talk about what I believe.

I totally agree, Sarah. Let’s leave Sarah Palin’s motherhood out of our discussions regarding her ability to lead–for better or worse. I actually think she’s handled the Bristol issue and ensuing tabloid furor gracefully. I still vehemently disagree with her stance on abortion, gun control, the environment and civil rights, but the media circus surrounding her family of late fairly sickens me.

And am I the only one who can’t help but think on the fact that John McCain is 72 and has a history of health problems? His veep nomination must carry more weight and beg more serious deliberation of voters for that reason, whether that’s fair or not.

yeah, that’s my thing. There are enough reasons to not like her, don’t like her for those reasons, not the personal one. Thanks for boiling my argument down!

I completely agree with all three of you on the subject of judging her credentials over her motherhood. I am a mother, and a potential employer is certainly NOT allowed to take into consideration how it is I chose to raise my child in the hiring process (or whether or not I have children, for that matter). Palin is the mother of 5, but I don’t understand why it is that this fact should have ANY bearing as to whether or not she would make a good VP. As mentioned before, a father of 5 would not be questioned as to whether or not he was fit for a role in politics, or if that was a responsible decision for him to make. And as for Bristol, she is 17. That is old enough to make her own decisions, regardless of what her parents have tried to teach her. She is her own person, with her own road to forge in life (complete with mistakes)and her parents can not be held *entirely* responsible for the decisions she makes.

I would like to hold Palin up for review based on her merits (but for different reasons than you, Brian, because I think they are weak). I want to hear more about the policy decisions that she made in the last 20 months, and less about the parenting decisions she made. These decisions are the ones that absolutely have to be taken into consideration, in light of McCain’s age & health.

When I sent the email, I wasn’t attempting to inspire a blog post. I just wanted to get Sarah’s opinion.

So, yeah, the report that I saw reeks of sexism. I realize that the woman speaking in the report doesn’t speak for all Democrats, so I’m not trying to blanket everyone who is voting Obama/Biden, but talking points come from somewhere, right?

All in all, I agree with Meredith, and others, who feel as if we should leave the motherhood stuff out, for the most part. That she is a mother is relevant in that she can identify with families who make up the majority of our nation’s population, but the relevance probably ends there.

On another note, Roald Dahl, I hardly knew ye.

Yeah, I agree Sarah. It’s unbelievable to me that this has all gone off like this. Does John McCain’s role as a father in his lifetime affect his credentials?

The whole thing is a mess, but it remains a masterstroke by the Republican party, in my opinion. Republican feminists are already referring to Hillary Clinton in ‘defence’ of Palin, and Democrats who want to complain about her lack of experience would want to think again before they say something about a vice-presidential candidate that could be used against their own presidential candidate.

Meredith, I think you make a good point about McCain’s health problems, but I still think the issue of the VP nominations is a fairly minor consideration. McCain and Obama are the big personalities here and they are very different; this whole firestorm is just a bit ridiculous.

[...] I was going to write on Sarah Palin today, but poshdeluxe has already done a great job on presenting the issue and started a cool conversation, [...]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, yet again “the media” becomes demonised, whatever the hell that is.

AND, why is nobody freaked out that this 17 year old girl is going to marry the father of her child? How in the name of God are these kids even remotely aware of what they want in a partner for the rest of their lives? Last time I checked it wasn’t the eighteenth century.

It’s just another way for the media to tiptoe around the real issues and not get it’s feet dirty when it comes to the things that really should matter to voters. Don’t want to anger those sponsors!

Oh and I hope the selection of Gov. Palin will stop all of this “inexperience” BS that has been thrown at the Dems side.

First, of COURSE they have to get married. There’s pretty much no other option, at least for the next few months (til the election) and if McCain’s elected, for 4 years. It’s just how it plays out in that community and the constituency they’re worried about.

But second, I think there are a lot of reasons to object to her, based on her actual views, and even if you want to attack her for personal stuff, the views of the church she attends. (The fact that’s not getting more attention could be seen as unfair to Barack, who had to deal with the Jeremiah Wright issue, but it’s basically parallel.)

I do think, however, that it’s kind of absurd to compare media coverage of Barack’s family with media coverage of Sarah Palin’s family. I’m sorry, but it would be big news if Barack’s daughter was a pregnant teenager who was about to marry a guy who proclaimed on the internet he’s proud to be a f**king redneck (or gangsta or something else), and it also would be big news if he had a 5-month-old child, instead of a 5- or 6-year-old girl. It’s different, and people would wonder if it would put too much stress on their family–although they’d probably ask Michele about it, rather than Barack.

I’m not saying there’s no sexism in the media coverage of Palin–it’s been discussed all over the blogs, etc.– but Barack’s information control about his family, not to mention vetting procedures to make sure there weren’t these stories in the first place, is much stronger, for better or worse.

But probably all of this will die down, unlike more subtle sexism, like the camera shots used for female candidates (http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah-palin-sexism-watch-6.html), and the way that Sarah Palin’s motherhood will probably continue to be a theme in the debates. But I also think her motherhood and her stated conventional stances on families and motherhood will be deliberately highlighted by her own team, as well… It’s difficult to have a first VP candidate and not be talking about what it means for women and for gender relations.

Palin does not have the experience of Obama. This needs to be put to rest. She can’t go around claiming that “being mayor of a small town is the same as being a political organizer.” That’s just insulting.

Being mayor of Wasilla, Alaska (population 5,469) and then governor of one of our least populous states for less than 2 years is not equivalent to being a senator of a state of 13 million for 7 years and then a US Senator for 4 years. Obama is on the senate foreign relations committee, dealing with global politics. As mayor of Wasilla, Palin dealt with moose incursions.

John Edwards’ affair received at least two solid weeks of media coverage and hype. Maybe it was diminished by the fact that he’s not the VP candidate, or candidate for anything right now, while Palin is. Nor was Al Gore at the time of his son’s arrest.

Bristol’s pregnancy is an issue for this reason alone: If a candidate believes that abstinence-only education is the only thing our kids should receive, I’d like to discuss the data on how effective it is v. teaching contraceptive use as well. If you make something a political issue, your own experience with that issue comes into play. Similarly, I don’t really care what a politician does in his or her personal sexual life, but if you make it your platform to go after homosexual rights, then it’s definitely an issue when you get caught soliciting gay sex in an airport bathroom. It cuts to your judgment and your motivations as a leader.

Anyway, the one issue that I wish was getting the real attention is the ethics complaint against Palin. I haven’t heard an adequate explanation yet on why she was demanding her sister’s ex husband, a state trooper, to be fired, and then firing the people who wouldn’t do so. I don’t think we need another leader who will use power for personal purposes like that. We’ve got enough of it already.

Sorry guys, it fair game.

They brought it up. They made it an issue. They stand in their churches and tell us that we can’t teach our daughters sex education (props to joshkatz). They stand at the political podiums and tell us that if you abort a down’s syndrome baby you are murdering a child. They make the way they live a political issue and then cry foul when the way they live is scrutinized.

Is the media coverage disgusting? Of course. Do I feel bad for Bristol Pallin? Who wouldn’t? But you can’t blame the media and you can’t blame the system; the only one you can blame is her mother. She made the decision to run for the second most powerful position in America on a platform of morals.

and Olivia “I’m sorry, but it would be big news if Barack’s daughter was a pregnant teenager who was about to marry a guy who proclaimed on the internet he’s proud to be a f**king redneck (or gangsta or something else)”

right on. The race would be over if Barack’s 17 year old daughter was pregnant and about to marry the inner city black equivalent of Levi. Over in a heartbeat.

“If you make something a political issue, your own experience with that issue comes into play.” well said, josh.

and olivia, props for asking why palin’s church stuff isn’t getting the same coverage as the jeremiah wright debacle. i’ve seen some of those youtube videos…

Honestly, I don’t think there’s any point getting upset with Palin, for a couple of reasons.

1) She’d just be the VP. Dan Quayle was VP once. Yes, I know McCain is old, but I also remember Gerald Ford. The Democrats should be in control of the House in any case so she can’t do anything too crazy.

2) Gnashing of teeth over this woman, and getting upset about it, however well justified, is only serving to unify Republicans more and more. Have you seen the footage from the convention? It’s like the Empire from bloody Star Wars. Democrats need to calmly state that this woman is a questionable candidate, and one that McCain did not put a lot of thought into selecting. But if this becomes an even bigger row, and lasts any longer, it just hurts Democrats.

Right-leaning ‘middle Americans’ aren’t convinced that sitting on committees is experience in Obama’s case. If I was American, I would vote for him today, tomorrow, 60 days from now, but let’s be honest, he’s been on a campaign to be president for at least eight years. I don’t believe he got into politics to make a difference at the local level.

Republicans won’t split, Republicans will vote for McCain even if they have reservations about him, and the Democrats need to stop falling into this old trap of getting outraged (however incendiary the provocation) and just win this bloody election. I agree it’s ridiculous she’s running on a morals agenda, but I think the office of the VP is a bit ridiculous. Don’t give idiots like Rush Limbaugh any more opportunities to convince Americans that the ‘east coast liberals’ think they are stupid, just give her enough rope to hang herself, which I suspect she will, and move on.

Joshkatz,
I don’t disagree with you at all when you write “…if you make it your platform to go after homosexual rights, then it’s definitely an issue when you get caught soliciting gay sex in an airport bathroom. It cuts to your judgment and your motivations as a leader.”

I don’t know, though, that you can telegraph individual actions to the entire political party. Every political party at some level is a big tent. You see the factioning in a much more noticeable way on the democratic side of the fence but there’s almost as much factioning on the GOP side as well. If a social issues conservative gets caught with his pants down (like Larry Craig, like Ted Haggard) I think it’s hypocritical. I don’t think anyone’s perfect but when you’re at a certain level there’s a bigger spotlight on you and the need to be squeaky clean is that much higher. But like I said, individual actions can’t be telegraphed out. If you were holding up, say, Steve Forbes, who’s a total fiscal conservative and he had been involved in some imbroglio, I don’t think you could necessarily say that that’s an example of the entire party being hypocritical because he doesn’t speak out on social issues. Not entirely knowing where Larry Craig stood (he’s not exactly a very visible senator) I can’t speak to whether or not that’s actually the case.

I still think it’s a farcical argument to say that a position is more worthy and more worthwhile for experience building because it’s in a bigger state. While Alaska isn’t the most populous state, it DOES have over 25000 state employees and a budget somewhere around 12billion dollars a year. As governor she has a much more involved position in dealing with making budgets and managing personnel does than a senator… and even though her tenure in her gubernatorial position has been short, in that time she has negotiated a new US/Canadian natural gas pipeline. That to me seems to be directly applicable to international relations.

As for Palin’s brother-in-law, I’m sure it will play out but it does appear that there were disciplinary issues that weren’t enforced. An Anchorage Daily News article had this to say…

“Troopers eventually investigated 13 issues and found four in which Wooten violated policy or broke the law or both:

* Wooten used a Taser on his stepson.
* He illegally shot a moose.
* He drank beer in his patrol car on one occasion.
* He told others his father-in-law would “eat a f’ing lead bullet” if he helped his daughter get an attorney for the divorce.”

Some of those seem like big things, especially tasing your stepson and threatening assault. While she may have done something wrong I don’t think pressing the matter immediately makes it some sort of retribution. If she thought that justice wasn’t being served, I think there are steps she’s able to pursue that are completely legitimate. We’ll see whether that’s what she did or something more than that.

Brian, I agree with your comments, and very well said, though I’m not sure you and Josh are contradicting each other much at all.

To be serious for a moment, though: Palin’s brother-in-law is clearly a bad-ass.

I’d like to nominate Josh Katz and Olivia as candidates for something. Because yeah, Brian – John Edwards wasn’t a newly selected VP candidate that would for sure be on the ballot in November. His scandal was widely covered, but there were other candidates to talk about, too. Right now, there’s a new VP pick and a Republican National Convention. DUH.

And yeah, because she’s a staunchly conservative candidate, the fact that her child is having a child IS an issue, not because of all the “we chose life” stuff, but because I’m fairly certain that she supports abstinence-only education, and I’m fairly certain that that sort of environment is why her daughter wasn’t fully prepared to protect herself when her body did what comes naturally.

When it demonstrates a clear measure of how her political and religious beliefs are FAIL, her family IS part of the story, and SHOULD be covered, and it should be covered AGGRESSIVELY. Not because she’s a mother, or because she’s a woman, but because she fucked up in raising her own family and we should point that out and say that in no way should she raise anything else. And if seventeen is old enough to say, “Well, she’s almost an adult, so it’s not her mom’s fault anymore,” then how young would she have to be before it is allowed? Sixteen? Fifteen? Nine?

I agree, though, that the Republicans will obviously swing any sort of argument into something that makes them sound like the good guys. And people in Colorado Springs will keep saying that Ted Haggard was possessed by the Devil and will go right on believing that their gay-bashing preacher was never a hypocrite at all. That’s just how delusion goes.

FWIW, I’ve never been a supporter of Haggard and I think a fairly large percentage of Colorado Springs would agrees with me in that sentiment. Haggard WAS hypocritical. I have friends who had close friends who apparently confronted Haggard about things on multiple occasions in the years leading up to when everything came out. Haggard always brushed them off. I’m perfectly comfortable admitting that what he did was hypocritical. Can we agree with John Edwards coming out and saying how much he loves his wife is hypocritical while he’s conspiring to pay off the mistress who has a child that could potentially be his?

I really didn’t want to start a contentious and divisive discussion. I started posting here because I already had a respect for you as a programmer Henri and thought that Sarah was a pretty wonderful writer and I thought that this might be a way to maybe get to know some cool people in the lead up to the move. I usually don’t talk politics because just gets in the way of other commonalities. Because of that, I’ll probably just hush up in this area for at least the next couple of months because I don’t want to say anything that would risk the possibility of getting to know everyone better in the future.

You make some valid points Henri but I gotta challenge you on the good guy/bad guy thing. Is it really Us vs Them, Good vs Evil? I think at the core of things we really agree on a lot of the issues, it’s a matter of whether those things are things that should be done by the government or whether they should be done by people in the community. Taking care of the poor and the elderly?

Crap. I meant to take off that last paragraph. I was editing while I wrote and meant to not go there. I wish I could go back and delete it. It’s a nascent and undeveloped thought. I’m sorry!

So Henri, her daughter being pregnant means she “fucked up” in raising her own family? Are you implying that teen pregnancy automatically means the parents fucked up?

And if you’re just echoing Palin’s own beliefs, that’s fine, but it comes across like you’re saying that she can’t be a VP because she isn’t a ’successful’ mother.

McCain picked her to energise those elements of the Republican party that weren’t sold on him. In this regard he has been successful. A nice bonus for him is that he’s discovered a new George Bush: a hate figure for Democrats to lose their mind over and come across as being irrational atheist pinky commie flip-flop wearing flip-floppers and so on. Why does anybody care? Just don’t vote for her. If I was American (so convenient for me I can do this) any inclination I had to vote for McCain disappeared when he chose her as his VP candidate. If the Democrats accentuate what they will do well and stay the course, they should still win. Don’t get sidetracked by the fear of returning to the last eight years.

Incidentally, and finally, because I’ll stop posting, her commitment to drill in the Alaskan wilderness is a joke. Even Pat Robertson this morning inadvertently pointed out how ridiculous her approach is; it’s fine if you don’t believe global warming is caused by man, but do you really think tearing a ton of trees down and destroying wildlife is a good thing? Really?

I am watching this from across the pond with horror. Because the more we talk about the drama surrounding Palin, the more Republicans are going to start defending her.

Did anyone see Biden talk to Matt Lauer this morning? I watched the video and thought, uh yeah, that is the ONLY approach. Basically Biden downplayed everything about Palin except her Republican-ness. As in: remember the last 8 years? They sucked. I didn’t hear her say anything last night about how she planned to turn the ship around. Barack and I are going to focus about how we’re going to change course. I hope she and McCain have a plan, but if they do, they’re not talking about it.

That’s the only way to undercut this hyper-emotional Republican bandwagon…with calm, clear logic and a proactive, positive agenda. And a reminder or two about how we got to where we are, and who brought us here.

Anyway, Barack made $30 off me today. I had to do something!!

Hear hear Amber!! I know I said I was done posting but Amber said exactly what I was trying to say.

I listened to Palin’s speech last night so I can make an informed decision. I am avoiding pro-democrat and pro-republican media articles to avoid either party picking apart the agenda they want to highlight from the speech while leaving the rest on the table (so I don’t get swayed).

I liked her speech and delivery. It was actually pretty impressive.

As for the family issues, even Obama has said that family is off limits. And it should be.

I try not to comment on Sarah’s blog as I feel that intrusion by some one of my generation may not be appropriate plus all of you are much more literate than I. But because of the interest and passion this subject has generated I must make an exception and comment.
It is good to see discussion that this subject generated. This is a most interesting presidential election in some time. I respect the candidates of both parties. In my opinion every one of these candidates are some exceptional individuals and are totally committed to leading the U.S. to what they believe is the best path in the next four years. All have to recover from some disappointment or tragedy in their lives. Obama’s achievements, when considering his early life are remarkable. What an example for African American men. Joe Biden, who lost a wife and child, has had a long and respective political career. We all know the POW story of John McCain, who is considered a maverick by his own party because he is willing to work across the aisle. And finally we have Sarah Palin, with her unmarried daughter’s pregnancy and Down syndrome baby, who became the governor of her state starting with the PTA.
All these individuals have some issues in their past, which the media will examine during the course of the next 60 days. So from now till Election Day, do your home work and to use an X-files cliché “Trust No One”, especially the media, confirm all the stories and promises looking for acts not emotions. Be of open mind. Also remember that the Congress has most of the clout these days.
And finally, please vote. Your generation is usually the lowest percentage of voters. If you are passionate about a candidate get involved in some way in their campaign. Remember many Americans (some of your relations and peer group) have given their lives to defend your right to disagree and vote.

I’m pretty firmly in the middle and really dislike that there are only two parties to choose from that have any chance at winning, especially since I don’t fully agree with either side. That said, I try to avoid political debate because everyone has an opinion and I’d rather gather my information as unbiasedly and unobtrusively as possible.

So…that Christian Bale/Kermit thing was freaking awesome!

Can I just say, on a more flippant note to address the title of this post, that I would prefer to call her PalindroNe. I know people really liked her speech, but her way of talking drives me crazy. I think it’s because it reminds me of my friend’s mom.

best said from jezebel:

“The thing that’s been bugging me about this whole Bristol Palin pregnancy issue is that I think that the Republicans are right: It’s a private matter and the pundits and the politicians should stay out of it. In fact, the pundits and the politicians should stay out of all issues concerning any woman’s uterus. Too bad the Republicans are unable, or unwilling, to see the irony in this.”

coming late to the party, here.

I have two major beefs with Palin: Beef One is her stance on just about everything, and Beef Two is the fact that she is getting away with saying “I’m a mother! I’m a mother first, and that’s what qualifies me!” and then turning around and saying, “but please don’t talk about my family!” She can’t have it both ways. If you consider your family life to be a prerequisite for leading the nation, fine, but I’m going to judge you on same. It’s no more or less fair than Kerry relying on his military record four years ago . . . and then being judged on his military record.

If McCain had picked a male as his running mate and this person had a teenage daughter was knocked up, would he be feeling this much pressure? No. I don’t think he would. And in that sense, it’s unfair to Palin. But Mythic Republican Male would also not go around talking about his fatherhood and parenting all the time – nor, I suspect, would he have been picked as a running mate to appeal to fathers, like Sarah Palin has so obviously been chosen to appeal to mothers.

In short, the second she stops throwing around the phrase “hockey mom,” the second I’ll stop judging the events of her family and forming opinions about her based on those events.

But, like John and Olivia have wisely pointed out, all this is doing is shoring up the Republican base and causing the Democrats to run around with their panties bunched. I think it was Randy’s interview way back when in which he said something like “The Republicans didn’t win the election; the Democrats lost it.” Randy and I don’t share political views, but he ain’t wrong. Democrats have managed to screw themselves out of better candidates for the last two presidential elections, and I fear this one will go much the same way.